[gentoo-user] Kernel questions. Availability and upgrading from old kernel.

[Dale]

Howdy,

I did my update and noticed the message about changes to kernel
packages.  Depending on how I read it, it sounds like gentoo-sources is
still available just that older versions are no longer updated as long. 
If I read it a different way, it sounds like gentoo-sources is about to
stop existing.  That last one doesn't sound right.  I can't imagine it
just going away since there are Gentoo specific stuff in there, openrc I
think being one option lurking about somewhere.  I think there is others
but been a while since I been poking around in there.  gentoo-sources is
hanging around right? 

Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.  It works but is
old.  No new types of hardware.  Most stuff I buy is older just because
it tends to be more supported anyway.  I tried a good while back to
upgrade to 6.1.55 which sort of boots I think but something doesn't work
and all I get is a console.  It's been a while since I tried it but it
did fail several times.  I did the upgrade the usual way.  I used make
oldconfig and went through all the answers which are mostly no since I
still have old hardware.  Is there a better way than oldconfig?  Is
there a way to start from scratch and list all the stuff that is on in
the old kernel and then compare that to the newer kernel so I can just
enable what is different but I need?  I'd rather avoid going through all
the menus hoping I recognize everything.  I forget what I went to the
kitchen for.  Remembering kernel options from years ago is likely to not
end well.  :/ 

Is it possible that version of kernel had bad bugs that made it a bad
idea with hindsight?  I plan to upgrade to the newest version in the
tree if I try again. 

Any thoughts?  Ideas? 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[Michael]

Post by Dale
Howdy,
I did my update and noticed the message about changes to kernel
packages. Depending on how I read it, it sounds like gentoo-sources is
still available just that older versions are no longer updated as long.
If I read it a different way, it sounds like gentoo-sources is about to
stop existing. That last one doesn't sound right. I can't imagine it
just going away since there are Gentoo specific stuff in there, openrc I
think being one option lurking about somewhere. I think there is others
but been a while since I been poking around in there. gentoo-sources is
hanging around right?

What was the message?

Post by Dale
Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.

This is no longer in the tree. You can update to the next stable release
5.15.142, or keyword 5.15.147, if you want to remain on the 5.x.x series.

Post by Dale
I tried a good while back to
upgrade to 6.1.55 which sort of boots I think but something doesn't work
and all I get is a console. It's been a while since I tried it but it
did fail several times.

What messages were printed on the console by the kernel? Did it segfault?

Post by Dale
I did the upgrade the usual way. I used make
oldconfig and went through all the answers which are mostly no since I
still have old hardware. Is there a better way than oldconfig?

This has served me well for ever and a day. The only time I recall having a
problem was when I missed out some graphics drivers change. The error message
in the console pointed me to the right direction.

Post by Dale
Is
there a way to start from scratch and list all the stuff that is on in
the old kernel and then compare that to the newer kernel so I can just
enable what is different but I need? I'd rather avoid going through all
the menus hoping I recognize everything. I forget what I went to the
kitchen for. Remembering kernel options from years ago is likely to not
end well. :/

You can run oldconfig and *carefully* examine the new options proposed, before
you accept of reject them.

Use the kernel's /usr/src/linux/scripts/diffconfig tool to compare and
contrast differences between the old config and the new config. This will show
you what's changed.

You could start with the latest ~amd64 kernel and work backward, or start with
the next stable release from the one you're running. If you try to report a
bug the devs will ask you to start with the latest ~amd64 release anyway, so
this could save you time.

Post boot errors and messages in case someone has a clue as to what may be
missing from your kernel config.

[Dale]

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
Howdy,
I did my update and noticed the message about changes to kernel
packages. Depending on how I read it, it sounds like gentoo-sources is
still available just that older versions are no longer updated as long.
If I read it a different way, it sounds like gentoo-sources is about to
stop existing. That last one doesn't sound right. I can't imagine it
just going away since there are Gentoo specific stuff in there, openrc I
think being one option lurking about somewhere. I think there is others
but been a while since I been poking around in there. gentoo-sources is
hanging around right?

What was the message?

This was a good while back.  I mostly remember it not giving me a GUI
like usual.  I do recall emerging the video drivers for that kernel
tho.  I'm pretty sure it didn't panic, just left me at a console.  I'm
not 100% sure tho.

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.

This is no longer in the tree. You can update to the next stable release
5.15.142, or keyword 5.15.147, if you want to remain on the 5.x.x series.

I'm wanting to upgrade to whatever the latest is that nvidia will work
with. 

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
I tried a good while back to
upgrade to 6.1.55 which sort of boots I think but something doesn't work
and all I get is a console. It's been a while since I tried it but it
did fail several times.

What messages were printed on the console by the kernel? Did it segfault?

No clue.  It was months ago at least. 

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
I did the upgrade the usual way. I used make
oldconfig and went through all the answers which are mostly no since I
still have old hardware. Is there a better way than oldconfig?

This has served me well for ever and a day. The only time I recall having a
problem was when I missed out some graphics drivers change. The error message
in the console pointed me to the right direction.

That has always been my case as well.  I've used make oldconfig and it
just worked.  This time was the exception. 

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
Is
there a way to start from scratch and list all the stuff that is on in
the old kernel and then compare that to the newer kernel so I can just
enable what is different but I need? I'd rather avoid going through all
the menus hoping I recognize everything. I forget what I went to the
kitchen for. Remembering kernel options from years ago is likely to not
end well. :/

You can run oldconfig and *carefully* examine the new options proposed, before
you accept of reject them.
Use the kernel's /usr/src/linux/scripts/diffconfig tool to compare and
contrast differences between the old config and the new config. This will show
you what's changed.
You could start with the latest ~amd64 kernel and work backward, or start with
the next stable release from the one you're running. If you try to report a
bug the devs will ask you to start with the latest ~amd64 release anyway, so
this could save you time.
Post boot errors and messages in case someone has a clue as to what may be
missing from your kernel config.

I'll keep this in mind.  I'm working on gentoo-sources-6.7.1 if
nvidia-drivers will work with it.  Sometimes they won't emerge, to new
or something.  It usually spits out a error why and how to work around
it, usually a slightly older kernel version or enable some option.  ;-) 
With this info, at least it doesn't look like something has changed and
I'm far afield. 

Thanks. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[Philip Webb]

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.

This is no longer in the tree. You can update to the next stable release
5.15.142, or keyword 5.15.147, if you want to remain on the 5.x.x series.

I need to add 'fuse' support to my kernel
to allow file transfer from my cell phone,
so it seemed sensible to update to the latest stable version.
The current version is 6.1.27-gentoo-r1 , which I compiled 230726.

I was very surprised to find that the latest stable version is 6.1.67 ,
tho' 6.7.1 is listed as testing with others in between.
Isn't this a bit slow ? -- no complaint re the hard-working dev's, of course.
Have there been problems with more recent versions ?
I'm reluctant to use a testing-version kernel.

All are 'Gentoo-sources', which is what I've always used since 2003.

[Jack]

Post by Philip Webb

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.

This is no longer in the tree. You can update to the next stable release
5.15.142, or keyword 5.15.147, if you want to remain on the 5.x.x series.

I need to add 'fuse' support to my kernel
to allow file transfer from my cell phone,
so it seemed sensible to update to the latest stable version.
The current version is 6.1.27-gentoo-r1 , which I compiled 230726.
I was very surprised to find that the latest stable version is 6.1.67 ,
tho' 6.7.1 is listed as testing with others in between.
Isn't this a bit slow ? -- no complaint re the hard-working dev's, of course.
Have there been problems with more recent versions ?
I'm reluctant to use a testing-version kernel.
All are 'Gentoo-sources', which is what I've always used since 2003.

The policy must be/should be around somewhere, but I recall discussions
about how many and which kernels (gentoo-sources, and possibly others)
will ever get marked Stable.  I believe it is something like only series
marked "longterm" at kernel.org will get marked stable, and I think it
is not even all of them, although I don't recall how they choose which
in each series do get stabilized.  As 6.6 and 6.7 are "stable" at
kernel.org, none of them will be "stable" in Gentoo.

[Jack]

Post by Jack

Post by Philip Webb

Post by Michael

Post by Dale
Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.

This is no longer in the tree. You can update to the next stable release
5.15.142, or keyword 5.15.147, if you want to remain on the 5.x.x series.

I need to add 'fuse' support to my kernel
to allow file transfer from my cell phone,
so it seemed sensible to update to the latest stable version.
The current version is 6.1.27-gentoo-r1 , which I compiled 230726.
I was very surprised to find that the latest stable version is 6.1.67 ,
tho' 6.7.1 is listed as testing with others in between.
Isn't this a bit slow ? -- no complaint re the hard-working dev's, of course.
Have there been problems with more recent versions ?
I'm reluctant to use a testing-version kernel.
All are 'Gentoo-sources', which is what I've always used since 2003.

The policy must be/should be around somewhere, but I recall
discussions about how many and which kernels (gentoo-sources, and
possibly others) will ever get marked Stable.  I believe it is
something like only series marked "longterm" at kernel.org will get
marked stable, and I think it is not even all of them, although I
don't recall how they choose which in each series do get stabilized. 
As 6.6 and 6.7 are "stable" at kernel.org, none of them will be
"stable" in Gentoo.

And clearly I'm wrong, at least partly, as 6.6.13 was just marked
stable.

[Arve Barsnes]

Post by Jack

Post by Jack
discussions about how many and which kernels (gentoo-sources, and
possibly others) will ever get marked Stable. I believe it is
something like only series marked "longterm" at kernel.org will get
marked stable, and I think it is not even all of them, although I
don't recall how they choose which in each series do get stabilized.
As 6.6 and 6.7 are "stable" at kernel.org, none of them will be
"stable" in Gentoo.

And clearly I'm wrong, at least partly, as 6.6.13 was just marked
stable.

The policy now as I understand it, is that the last release of the
year gets chosen as the next LTS release. This was 6.6 in 2023.

To check/confirm which branches are LTS, see
https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Regards,
Arve

[Jack]

Post by Arve Barsnes

Post by Jack

Post by Jack
discussions about how many and which kernels (gentoo-sources, and
possibly others) will ever get marked Stable. I believe it is
something like only series marked "longterm" at kernel.org will get
marked stable, and I think it is not even all of them, although I
don't recall how they choose which in each series do get stabilized.
As 6.6 and 6.7 are "stable" at kernel.org, none of them will be
"stable" in Gentoo.

And clearly I'm wrong, at least partly, as 6.6.13 was just marked
stable.

The policy now as I understand it, is that the last release of the
year gets chosen as the next LTS release. This was 6.6 in 2023.
To check/confirm which branches are LTS, see
https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

I suppose it's just a presentation inconsistency. https://www.kernel.org
still shows 6.6 as stable, not yet longterm.  I'm sure they will update
that eventually

[Dale]

Post by Dale
Howdy,
I did my update and noticed the message about changes to kernel
packages.  Depending on how I read it, it sounds like gentoo-sources is
still available just that older versions are no longer updated as long. 
If I read it a different way, it sounds like gentoo-sources is about to
stop existing.  That last one doesn't sound right.  I can't imagine it
just going away since there are Gentoo specific stuff in there, openrc I
think being one option lurking about somewhere.  I think there is others
but been a while since I been poking around in there.  gentoo-sources is
hanging around right? 
Currently I'm running 5.14.15 gentoo-sources kernel.  It works but is
old.  No new types of hardware.  Most stuff I buy is older just because
it tends to be more supported anyway.  I tried a good while back to
upgrade to 6.1.55 which sort of boots I think but something doesn't work
and all I get is a console.  It's been a while since I tried it but it
did fail several times.  I did the upgrade the usual way.  I used make
oldconfig and went through all the answers which are mostly no since I
still have old hardware.  Is there a better way than oldconfig?  Is
there a way to start from scratch and list all the stuff that is on in
the old kernel and then compare that to the newer kernel so I can just
enable what is different but I need?  I'd rather avoid going through all
the menus hoping I recognize everything.  I forget what I went to the
kitchen for.  Remembering kernel options from years ago is likely to not
end well.  :/ 
Is it possible that version of kernel had bad bugs that made it a bad
idea with hindsight?  I plan to upgrade to the newest version in the
tree if I try again. 
Any thoughts?  Ideas? 
Thanks.
Dale
:-)  :-) 

Update.  As some know, I rarely reboot.  Today, I rebooted.  I had to
replace UPS batteries.  I had a problem but will start another thread
about that shortly.  I finally got a newer kernel that works. 
Awesome!!!!  I'm on version 6.7.1-gentoo now.  I figured out what wasn't
working before, the mouse.  I had a pointer but it wouldn't move.  I
found the mouse stuff on the wiki and for some silly reason, the needed
options wasn't enabled in the kernel by default.  Why someone wouldn't
set a mouse to enabled by default is beyond me.  I suspect the defaults
came from the kernel sources not Gentoo devs tho.  Anyway, I rebooted
and despite my other problem I had to fix, everything works now. 

I'm gonna try to update more often but not booting very often makes that
kinda hard.  :/  At least I got a few years to worry about upgrading
kernels again.  ;-) 

Thanks to all. 

Dale

:-)  :-)