[gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Wols Lists]

I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I can
find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem... and
seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...

Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work properly.
I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere to adjust
it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double or treble
clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag to select",
the area the mouse drags over bears precious little resemblance to the
are the mouse actually is. Combined with the "double click effect" it
makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost unusable.

It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the
system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard just
no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just ignores it.

Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it

(systemd, kde system)

Cheers,
Wol

[Jack]

Post by Wols Lists
I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I
can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem...
and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work
properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere
to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double
or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag
to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little
resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the
"double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost
unusable.
It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the
system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard
just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just
ignores it.
Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
(systemd, kde system)
Cheers,
Wol

only some more straws to grab at

- any hints in dmesg?

- if it is a USB mouse, have you tried plugging it into a different
port?  Have you tried a different mouse (to be sure it's not a hardware
issue)

- have you tried xev?

- I have no idea if any of the settings in System
Settings/Accessibility/Mouse Navigation might help, or at least help
with debugging.

[Andrey F.]

Post by Jack

Post by Wols Lists
I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I
can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem...
and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work
properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere
to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double
or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag
to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little
resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the
"double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost
unusable.

I've had the same issue pop up on several occassions and the solution both
times was to use an air duster under the click buttons to push dust out. It
drove me crazy for a long time thinking it was software-related. Hopefully
it is as simple as that for you :)

Post by Jack

Post by Wols Lists
It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the
system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard
just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just
ignores it.
Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
(systemd, kde system)
Cheers,
Wol

only some more straws to grab at
- any hints in dmesg?
- if it is a USB mouse, have you tried plugging it into a different
port? Have you tried a different mouse (to be sure it's not a hardware
issue)
- have you tried xev?
- I have no idea if any of the settings in System
Settings/Accessibility/Mouse Navigation might help, or at least help
with debugging.

[m***@tutanota.com]

The switches themselves do that when they start to wear out.  I've had it happen to a number of mice/track balls.  Indeed I'll soon be replacing those switches on several track balls and I'll use better switches that have the same dimensions.  It may be worth trying to de-dust and de-dust bunny them but it probably isn't the problem.

--"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." Tommy Douglas

Post by Jack

Post by Wols Lists
I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I
can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem...
and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work
properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere
to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double
or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag
to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little
resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the
"double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost
unusable.

I've had the same issue pop up on several occassions and the solution both times was to use an air duster under the click buttons to push dust out. It drove me crazy for a long time thinking it was software-related. Hopefully it is as simple as that for you :)

Post by Jack

Post by Wols Lists
It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the
system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard
just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just
ignores it.
Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
(systemd, kde system)
Cheers,
Wol

only some more straws to grab at
- any hints in dmesg?
- if it is a USB mouse, have you tried plugging it into a different
port?  Have you tried a different mouse (to be sure it's not a hardware
issue)
- have you tried xev?
- I have no idea if any of the settings in System
Settings/Accessibility/Mouse Navigation might help, or at least help
with debugging.

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Post by m***@tutanota.com
The switches themselves do that when they start to wear out.  I've had it happen to a number of mice/track balls.  Indeed I'll soon be replacing those switches on several track balls and I'll use better switches that have the same dimensions.  It may be worth trying to de-dust and de-dust bunny them but it probably isn't the problem.

I bought a mouse with optical switches, which are advertised to never
develop this exact problem. I guess I'll have to wait for a couple years
to see if the claims check out :P

[Wol]

Post by Nikos Chantziaras

Post by m***@tutanota.com
The switches themselves do that when they start to wear out.  I've had
it happen to a number of mice/track balls.  Indeed I'll soon be
replacing those switches on several track balls and I'll use better
switches that have the same dimensions.  It may be worth trying to
de-dust and de-dust bunny them but it probably isn't the problem.

I bought a mouse with optical switches, which are advertised to never
develop this exact problem. I guess I'll have to wait for a couple years
to see if the claims check out :P

Thanks everyone. It's a nice Logitech gaming mouse, so I didn't want it
to be a pain to use (and I tried an old mouse to replace it which played
up similarly ???), but

giving it a good blow underneath the mouse buttons appears to have done
the trick!

Thanks all!

Cheers,
Wol

[William Kenworthy]

Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.

BillK

Post by Wols Lists
I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I
can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem...
and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work
properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere
to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double
or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag
to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little
resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the
"double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost
unusable.
It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the
system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard
just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just
ignores it.
Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
(systemd, kde system)
Cheers,
Wol

[Wols Lists]

Post by William Kenworthy
Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.

Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...

Cheers,
Wol

[Michael]

Post by Wols Lists

Post by William Kenworthy
Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.

Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
Cheers,
Wol

Still does:

Go to SystemSettings > Input Devices > Mouse

(also there are menus for Keyboard, Game Controller, Drawing Tablet, Touchpad,
Touchscreen, Virtual Keyboard).

[Wols Lists]

Post by Michael

Post by Wols Lists

Post by William Kenworthy
Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.

Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
Cheers,
Wol

Go to SystemSettings > Input Devices > Mouse
(also there are menus for Keyboard, Game Controller, Drawing Tablet, Touchpad,
Touchscreen, Virtual Keyboard).

The MENU is there. The settings ARE NOT.

You can set pointer speed, swap left and right mouse buttons, and that's
about it. I've got a fancy gaming mouse and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
beyond the complete basics that is configurable :-(

No middle button settings. No double click speed. No extra button
settings. Zilch. Nada. F.all.

Cheers,
Wol

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Post by Wols Lists
I've got a fancy gaming mouse and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
beyond the complete basics that is configurable :-(

I also have such a mouse, but I have to configure it in Windows (using
the "Logitech HUB" software.) Fortunately, the settings are stores on
the mouse itself so it remembers the settings in Linux. Not optimal
having to boot Windows to configure the mouse, but better than nothing :P

[Wol]

Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop. There's pointer
speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached. I use libinput
for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the default settings.
I think different mouse models would generate different inputs and would offer
more settings. Mine is a simple wired optical mouse.

I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.

You've got the basics, just like me ...

Cheers,
Wol

[Michael]

Post by Wol

Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop. There's pointer
speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached. I use
libinput for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the
default settings. I think different mouse models would generate different
inputs and would offer more settings. Mine is a simple wired optical
mouse.

I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.
You've got the basics, just like me ...
Cheers,
Wol

According to libinput this is what's available for my USB mouse:

# libinput list-devices
[snip ...]

Device: PIXART USB OPTICAL MOUSE
Kernel: /dev/input/event6
Group: 5
Seat: seat0, default
Capabilities: pointer
Tap-to-click: n/a
Tap-and-drag: n/a
Tap drag lock: n/a
Left-handed: disabled
Nat.scrolling: disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration: n/a
Scroll methods: button
Click methods: none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles: flat *adaptive custom
Rotation: 0.0

It's a very basic three button mouse. In Plasma-Wayland I get more options
shown in the SystemSettings GUI, than when in Plasma on Xorg. I don't know if
tweaking '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf' will allow you to configure
your mouse as you want to. Settings configured in this file which work in
Xorg do not necessarily work with Wayland.

[William Kenworthy]

Post by Michael

Post by Wol

Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop. There's pointer
speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached. I use
libinput for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the
default settings. I think different mouse models would generate different
inputs and would offer more settings. Mine is a simple wired optical
mouse.

I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.
You've got the basics, just like me ...
Cheers,
Wol

# libinput list-devices
[snip ...]
Device: PIXART USB OPTICAL MOUSE
Kernel: /dev/input/event6
Group: 5
Seat: seat0, default
Capabilities: pointer
Tap-to-click: n/a
Tap-and-drag: n/a
Tap drag lock: n/a
Left-handed: disabled
Nat.scrolling: disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration: n/a
Scroll methods: button
Click methods: none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles: flat *adaptive custom
Rotation: 0.0
It's a very basic three button mouse. In Plasma-Wayland I get more options
shown in the SystemSettings GUI, than when in Plasma on Xorg. I don't know if
tweaking '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf' will allow you to configure
your mouse as you want to. Settings configured in this file which work in
Xorg do not necessarily work with Wayland.

Here is mine:

Device:           Logitech M310
Kernel:           /dev/input/event11
Group:            3
Seat:             seat0, default
Capabilities:     pointer
Tap-to-click:     n/a
Tap-and-drag:     n/a
Tap drag lock:    n/a
Left-handed:      disabled
Nat.scrolling:    disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration:      n/a
Scroll methods:   button
Click methods:    none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles:   flat *adaptive
Rotation:         n/a

In XFCE4 most of the settings appear part of the desktop/window manager.

BillK

[Michael]

Post by Michael

Post by Wol

Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop. There's pointer
speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached. I use
libinput for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the
default settings. I think different mouse models would generate different
inputs and would offer more settings. Mine is a simple wired optical
mouse.

I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.
You've got the basics, just like me ...
Cheers,
Wol

# libinput list-devices
[snip ...]
Device: PIXART USB OPTICAL MOUSE
Kernel: /dev/input/event6
Group: 5
Seat: seat0, default
Capabilities: pointer
Tap-to-click: n/a
Tap-and-drag: n/a
Tap drag lock: n/a
Left-handed: disabled
Nat.scrolling: disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration: n/a
Scroll methods: button
Click methods: none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles: flat *adaptive custom
Rotation: 0.0
It's a very basic three button mouse. In Plasma-Wayland I get more options
shown in the SystemSettings GUI, than when in Plasma on Xorg. I don't
know if tweaking '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf' will allow you
to configure your mouse as you want to. Settings configured in this file
which work in Xorg do not necessarily work with Wayland.

Device: Logitech M310
Kernel: /dev/input/event11
Group: 3
Seat: seat0, default
Capabilities: pointer
Tap-to-click: n/a
Tap-and-drag: n/a
Tap drag lock: n/a
Left-handed: disabled
Nat.scrolling: disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration: n/a
Scroll methods: button
Click methods: none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles: flat *adaptive
Rotation: n/a
In XFCE4 most of the settings appear part of the desktop/window manager.
BillK

OK, as far as libinput is concerned any function with "n/a" next to it means
it does not exist on this device and therefore it is not configurable.

https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/1.11.3/tools.html

Now, if you/the manufacturer state there is a certain function available and
it should be configurable, then it is a question why this is not exposed by
the driver/firmware to the kernel and libinput. Libinput developers have
stated they will not put effort into features of less common input devices, so
I suppose there's that as a potential explanation.

If a function and setting is shown in the GUI of XFCE4 but not in Plasma's
SystemSettings, you could try comparing the GUI settings in Plasma-Wayland Vs
Plasma-Xorg and add what is missing in '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-
libinput.conf'. I don't know if settings configured in 40-libinput.conf will
thereafter make them visible in the GUI, but either way it may provide a
workaround.

[Jack]

Post by Wols Lists

Post by William Kenworthy
Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings
with a number of useful items including acceleration, double click
timings etc.

Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
Cheers,
Wol

It still does - under Accessibility in System Settings.  Open System
Settings and type "mouse" in the search box.